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Wildstar Why (?) Wildstar Should Avoid Consoles

K

Korova

New member
------------------------------OPINION--------------------------------
About a year ago, I hadn't heard of Wildstar and only knew of two upcoming MMO projects which I considered to be 'Post-Warcraft' sandboxes: EverQuest Next and Project Titan. Given what we know about those respective titles (or lack thereof), their developers, history of the MMO genre and PC-console transports, I am concerned about what may happen if Carbine/NC Soft thinks that it is necessary to port Wildstar on a next-gen console.

I've not outright decided that multiple platforms is a *bad* idea (as I think integration is sometimes useful for progressive growth). I try to consider all sides of an objective point which is why I'm asking you for your opinion and to share data - if you have it - which supports your opinion.

I am concerned that if Wildstar moved to this or the following generation of consoles (PS3-PS4/X360-X1) the quality of the game and the community will be made worse, despite the almost symbiotic and colliding relationship PC's and console systems have.

It seems that a healthy lifespan of well-developed warcraft-gen MMO's is about 8-10 years. I've also had the experience that even as a young teen, the communities in games like EverQuest and to a different relational degree, starcraft, were much more recipient and mature than what we have now. Unless the PS4/X1 have significant upgrade capacity (I suppose it was possible to mod those systems, but it was often at the cost of compromising another programmed feature incorporated into the system itself) - they can't support the dynamic and rich environments and communities fostered by PC's - at least, right now.

-----------PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH CONSOLES----------
This is more of a brief on modern experiences, not a biographical.

On another personal note, about the time I started online gaming I completely removed myself from the console universe and as such - starting with the generational releases of the Xbox systems - I've missed at least two generations. That said, I'm actually considering buying one. With the way things are looking, probably a PS4, but I probably won't know if or which I'll end up with until a few weeks before release.

If the Steambox doesn't turn to vapor, I may end up going with one, if it promises to be a more PC-assimilated experience. Also, if rumors stay on track, I would think much less of the multiple platform issue simply because it's more dynamic and comprehensive of PC evolution than what I've seen from the two 'definitions' coming later this year.(?)

Off topic - if you play consoles or plan to, which would you (are you) going with and why?

--------------------------YOUR OPINION----------------------------
So that's it really - do you think it would be acceptable for Wildstar to have a formulation for consoles? If so why and which system? If not, why not and what have your experiences been like with PC-console transports or observing this environment?

 
you know i played FFXII for 2 years on the XBOX before switching to the PC version. i liked the fact that anyone from any where pc or console could login and play. The main reason i switched was just for the feal it felt like a pc game even when i was playing on my xbox with a controller. So i dont htink it would be a bad thing rather a good thing for our brothers that may spend all their hard earned money on a console vs. a PC. I am still on the fence about purchasing an XBOX One. I will probably wait till it goes on sale and after all the bugs have been worked out of the initial system release.
 
I feel that since Wildstar has so few skill slots, its definitely possible to use a controller to do it all, and I plan on derping around with one of my 360 controllers when I get the game. That being said, I personally would not want to play an mmo on a console, it seems mostly counterintuitive to me.
 
Evilcat said:
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You should not encourage the Console gamers. In all seriousness porting to or designing with consoles in mind always seems to dumb down and lower the quality of the game. If that is because console games are not as deep or immersive as PC games or because it eats dev time making just to make it work on both platforms i could not tell you. (there are always exceptions to this)
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Thanks for the laugh!

More seriously, I've experienced very similar and that's why I'm concerned about a possible port. However, the only thing I have for regular (gaming) entertainment are the occasional bargain bin indie games (very rare) on steam - like Binding of Isaac and Super Meat Boy, also an occasional game of League of Legends or a goof run on Quake Live. I'm also temporarily playing EverQuest for nostalgia and to get Epic 1.0 - 2.0's I never obtained before I stopped playing.

However, that's all very casual and insipid. I don't have anything to sink my teeth into right now, except hopes of Wildstar and I'm not sure what's to blame for the stagnant creativity/innovation/development for games as of late - I wish I had more to care about on my PC than frolicking on some mindless drivel.

That said, I could probably do *most* of the above (and more) on a console. I just can't see myself playing something as robust as a well-developed MMORPG on any console platform that we know about (non-vapor).

The primary reason I'm against Wildstar going to console is because I've yet to see how a healthy MMO could sustain itself on a console system - at least one to the scale I wish Wildstar to be.
 
Evilcat said:
To be fair MMO's can in fact stay robust and healthy on consoles; In japan. outside of the oceanic area mmo's just don't do as well outside of the pc market.
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Oh? Could you provide some examples? I'd be interested in looking into them.

I'm just so accustom to what we have here in the MMO market, I made a poor presumption that our MMO schema was universal.
 
Korova said:
Oh? Could you provide some examples? I'd be interested in looking into them.

I'm just so accustom to what we have here in the MMO market, I made a poor presumption that our MMO schema was universal.
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The games would be Monster Hunter, Phantasy Star Online, FF XII. My numbers are a little bit old, so if someone has more recent numbers feel free to correct me.

The main reason why I don´t like to see MMOs on consoles is the missing keyboard. Now one could argue that you can just plug in a keyboard or use Voip but I don´t think that this creates the same immersion like the trade chat / barrens of WoW did.
Also I already see this comeing: PC-gamers can aim much better with a mouse than you can with a controller. Please make it more difficult for them to aim.

The reason why PC-gamers are usually more mature is not because they are more mature on the same age, but everything that surrounds it. If a child asks their parents for a Gaming device, the parents are more likely to buy a console, if they do not know what they are doing. Because consoles are cheaper (unless you build the PC yourself) and easier to set up. Also this is what game shops usually recommend.
If the parents, on the other hand, have some experience with PCs themself, they can teach their children on how to use it, and what to expect, and how to behave in online play.
This is in my opinion the reason for a higher maturity around PC gamers.

edith says:
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The moment a game goes on console, especially an MMO, it requires simplifications. Especially in the PvE aspects, for instance ESO which is going on consoles has already stated that the only "end game" pve content will be 4 men dungeons and world bosses (GW2 easy mode style). Raids, or what we now expect from raids, need to be HARD, or at least challenging, and so does the game! I've played FFXII, and more recently Defiance on console, the problem is in the communication, you literally can go through the whole game without talking to a single player, and you are not even invited to talk with people cause its soooo clunky (and sometimes awkard random VoIP while questing is meh).

If one wants a casual MMO, consoles might be the perfect answer, however, a game like Sildstar which aimss to have "competitive" PvE (and abit of PvP) requires to be HARD, there is no way on earth that a console can provide that type of content. Even communication wise, yes you have voice chat, but sometimes the chat with macros/addons is fundamental for some particularly hard fights. Also, Wildstar aims to be highly modyfiable through addons and as we all know consoles are not famous for being easy to manipulate :p
Further more, the joystic emplyes a limit on the number of keys you have (therefore also abilities), and yes razer makes some weird ass joystic with a keyboard, but really if you get a console keyboard you might as well be on a pc.

My2c.
 
Disprezzo said:
...Sildstar ...
Further more, the joystic emplyes a limit on the number of keys you have (therefore also abilities), and yes razer makes some weird ass joystic with a keyboard, but really if you get a console keyboard you might as well be on a pc.
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Why not Slidestar. Sorry I had to say this.
You have 8 skills so R1 + X,O, Square, triangle is the first 4 skills and R2+X,O, Square, triangle is the second 4 skills. So I can see this work gameplay wise.
 
because while you are pressing 2 buttons (L1 + [insert button]), you are also moving around with one analog stick, while rotating the camera with the other analog stick o_O it's clucky as heeeeeeell imho. 2 thumbs busy on analog sticks, left hand index finger on L1, left hand thumb on left analog, right hand thumb on right analog... you cant click X, O, square, triangle with your right index/middle/anular/pinky fingers :S I mean yea u can drop the camera when you are using spells, but in PvP seeing that it's a move while casting to aim system its gonna be frigging weird.

EDIT: if you have auto camera you will be turning at the same speed of a keyboard turner AKA slow as hell :p
 
I like consoles and i can see Wildstar going onto the consoles AFTER they get the first year bugs out of them when the PS4 and Xbone release. Yes it will more than likely be simplified because you can do more with a computer than you can do with a game.

For example i think the only customization you can do wit the PS3 or Xbox 360 is add a cooling fan or switch out for more memory. However what do you think if Sony and Microsoft got into the "customization" era? Such as switching out video cards for better graphics? I just think that they can do so much with the system "We have the technology"
 
I can't remember where it was stated, but it was mentioned previously that gamepad support is not a planned thing on Carbine's to do list, and that the game was not built around that type of functionality or practicality.
 
Evilcat said:
Another problem that always pops up in this kind of conversation is that they would need 2 sets of servers. you have to segregate the PC and Console players, at least for pvp. Each and every time a Game company has tried to amalgamate their player base the PC gamers have always crushed the Console gamers utterly. regardless of personal opinion the level of control afforded with a mouse and keyboard is just orders of magnitude greater then a gamepad.
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Hmm. Slightly off subject but with the new generations of consoles, they are allowing keyboard and mouse combos for games I believe. I could be wrong, and that would detract from my original statement as well.
 
Evilcat said:
Like the mouse on snes, or the mouse and keyboard on Xbox, or the etc, etc, etc..... I will believe it when i see it running free of a dev kit.
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I'll have to poke around later when not at work, but I think it was in the conversation with Blacklight Retribution, Warframe, and Planetside 2 coming to PS4 and the argument of KB/M > Controller. I could be imagining this though and have my facts mixed up.
 
Evilcat said:
shared Planetside 2 servers on PC and Consoles... those poor poor console players.
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I think that console players can give Kb/M players a run for their money. You look and click with one FULL hand, it takes us... a thumb. All of our buttons are close together which equals efficiency where-as a computer keyboard is layed out pretty far and i usually have to look down at what i am pressing. Console controller has about what?... 15 buttons all in locations where you can designate a finger to. I would have to correct your statement.

"poor poor Pc player"
 
Evilcat said:
any and all tests done by dev's show gamepad players to be at a massive disadvantage. I'm not just pokeing people to be a jerk. This is not about ease of button reach. Its about reaction time and precision aim. with equally skilled players the thump stick and trigger button will lose to a mouse 9/10. Wasd vs Thumb stick for movement is more or less on par with a little in favor of the thumbstick for tiny movements. I'm Not just talking out of my ass here. People have been trying to make find a way to amalgamate servers for years and it always boils down to "we need to handicap the pc players to make it work".

The argument is not Gamepad vs keyboard and mouse. Its mouse VS thumbstick.
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I have only heard of ONE test done and that was done by Microsoft back in 2010. It also boils down to what they are playing, skill level of players, and a few other things. Most PC gamers aren't even a foot from their screen where-as a console player is sitting on his couch chilling on the other side of the room. So yeah i can see a little bit of an advantage there.

I'll believe the statistics when there is more than one review done on the topic.
 
Baldoraxx said:
"poor poor Pc player"
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Evilcat said:
The argument is not Gamepad vs keyboard and mouse. Its mouse VS thumbstick.
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You two just don´t forget that we are talking about a MMO here and not an Shooter. Unless it is a shooter where headshots with a middle caliber is not an instant kill, I´d go for controller over mouse, because everybody will be blasting SMG anyway. But I digress.

edit says:
just looked something up: http://n4g.com/news/43443/controller-balancing-console-vs-pc-gaming-and-how-shadowrun-did-it Apparently in this game controller is better.
 
Well, I'm going to add this in here. A small blurb about console stuff.

http://www.vg247.com/2013/07/30/wildstar-how-to-survive-the-mmo-update-arms-race/

Gaffney added that if you’re a publisher without the business model to make money for yourself in the MMO space then it’s a no-brainer if you decide to skip consoles in favour of PCs, but he felt that the next-generation of consoles seems better suited to treating MMO developers fairly, and in accommodating their need to constantly update. As for WildStar however, it’s purely a PC game for now.

“We’re going to do PC first because we love PC,” Gaffney explained, “and we think you should do the things you love first. We may branch out onto consoles some day but in general now we want to own the PC market more than we’re heading after console.”
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Baldoraxx said:
Don't know if you saw this in the article but possible release date this year???

It’s also why Carbine Studios’ debut MMO is targeting frequent and substantial content drops after it launches later this year.
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Speculation by the journalist, not confirmed. Carbine has said many times "slated for 2013, but will release once ready"
 
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